Being Transformed Through Zen Practice: An Interview with Shundo

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We asked WITHIN teacher Shundo David Haye to share how he began meditating, and what he’s learned during his years of practice. Here’s what he told us.

Q: How did you get started with meditation?

A: For the first part of my life, I think endurance sports - cross-country running and long-distance road cycling - were my meditations. I was introduced to seated meditation in 1999 after I started dating someone who was a practicing Buddhist! I had had plenty of experience being alone with my thoughts, so that aspect was not so challenging; I tried sitting cross-legged for fifteen or twenty minutes to begin with, as I wasn't especially flexible. Eventually I got used to non-moving meditation.

What led you to begin teaching meditation?

One thing led to another, and a few years later I was living at Tassajara, the oldest zen training monastery outside of Asia.


I totally loved the monastic training, being in a spiritual community and living deep in the mountains. I could feel a transformation happening in me, and after two years of that I realized that I wanted to make Buddhist practice the focus of my life.


I decided to continue training so that I could ordain as a priest, and become a teacher so as to have the opportunity to share the benefits of the teaching.

What do you love about teaching at WITHIN?

I have only been leading classes at WITHIN for a few months, but I love building a relationship with the regulars, who obviously know each other from other classes. Right now I am usually teaching to people in three countries each week, which is pretty great.

What advice would you give to someone who is just getting started with meditation?

Do what you can to make it stick as a habit. I usually say that if you are the kind of person that pushes yourself hard, give yourself permission to skip every now and again, but if you know you need some discipline, try to sit every day. Don't expect particular outcomes within a certain period of time, or any measurable outcomes ever. Trust that change will come.

What’s your favorite book related to meditation and/or mindfulness?

I will always have a soft spot for Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki; it was the first zen book I read, and he was the founder of the San Francisco Zen Center and Tassajara, where I lived and trained for fifteen years. I love how he was able to distill the essence of traditional Japanese zen to a group of Americans who probably had no real context for what he was talking about.


Even though I didn't understand it when I first read it, I had an inkling that it was showing me a whole different way of looking at life.


I go back and re-read it regularly, and always find something amazing in there.

A special mention also for Eihei Dogen's Genjo Koan (one of the texts that Suzuki Roshi was subtly introducing to his students). In three pages, Dogen encapsulates the zen way of looking at the world, and because it was written for a lay follower, he never even mentions meditation.

What’s been your favorite meditation retreat so far?

There were a few multi-day retreats at Tassajara where I felt I was totally in the groove, where I had a lot of energy and clarity, which overrode the usual experience of physical discomfort from sitting that much. On one occasion I just felt all my resistance totally melt away in a moment. There were also dozens of times when I wanted to run away screaming, but somehow I continued. The best part was usually reaching the end, and seeing how everybody and everything seemed to shine brighter.

What’s your favorite way to incorporate mindfulness into your day?

I am big on mindful walking, and used to lead mindful hikes around San Francisco before the pandemic. Even if I am just taking our dog around the block, I try to pay close attention to everything around me.

What question didn't we ask, that you'd like to answer?

Q - Does a dog have buddha nature? *

A - It goes without saying.

*(This is often the first koan a zen student has to deal with)

Shundo teaches online meditation classes regularly at WITHIN, as well as for companies in the San Francisco Bay Area and beyond. Join him for a class this week!